✮ m e g a p o s t : links, sources & info ✮ nancy spungen’s childhood vs. courtney love’s
Anonymous said to exposingcourtneylove:
It is well known CL has been copy-catting Nancy Spungen for decades. What I find curious is if you read Linda’s book about CL’s childhood and compare that to Deborah Spungen ’s account of Nancy, the descriptions are strikingly similar.. Do you think Linda could be actually planning into CL’s image too??
They aren’t alike and are opposites in every possible way. The assertion that they’re similar is so off base that it has to be made into a post to cover it all.
Make Sure You Read : Courtney Love’s Childhood ( 1, 2, 3 ) + It’s #Tag or else you’ll miss out on vital information.
Text Provided : Excerpts/References from -
･ And I Don’t Want To Live This Life by Deborah Spungen (1984)
･ and Her Mother’s Daughter by Linda Carroll (2005) [though we also note that Linda can occasionally, we feel, exaggerate to protect her daughter]
･ Corroborations/Cross-references
Nancy was misunderstood neurologically and personally, misdiagnosed, and had a mother that admitted to being selfish and had a dismissive father. She was also raised in a ‘gotta fix the problem child’ like environment. Linda Carroll, Courtney’s mother, was actually supportive of her potential from the get go. She enrolled Courtney in Montessori schools, which had teachers that insisted she was highly advanced, took her to specialized child-oriented therapists, started her own daycare around her, and only let people into her life that wanted to help her, not like Deborah, who wanted a quick-fix.
We’ve also found through side by side and contextual comparison that Courtney just copied her mother’s molestation and ‘bastard child’ narratives to sell the story she tells today. Yes, it’s really that sick. She combined it with Kurt’s to have the ‘bad childhood’ people are under the impression she’s had.
See: Her lie about being molested by her father Hank Harrison + more information about it in the tags about her childhood above for corroborations
Nancy, on the other hand, annoyed the shit out of Deborah as a child and published a book where she reveled in her own victimization and scapegoat of her daughter veiled in an attempt to promote understanding. While informative in some areas, Nancy’s fanbase naturally side-eye the book itself. Linda just wanted to pour her love into Courtney and got rejected in the process and wrote a book about that that mirrors the gaps in understanding because no mother wants to actually understand, respectively, that their child is just cruel by nature. That link is proof of how she wants to believe her daughter’s a good person and goes as far to drawing false parallels and weaving projections because of how much faith she still has in her. A blind faith she’s protected her with publicly as early as 1995 (ctrl/cmd + f - “linda” (read all linda’s dialogue)) and has refused to change since. Through out this piece, if you’re observant, you’ll notice that not only do Linda’s anecdotes from her book in 2005 match the ones she gave in 95, but also in links that show that Courtney eventually had to corroborate her mother’s positive involvement because she needed a base to pull from for what she’d sensationalize later on.
Sensationalism invented to draw completely imaginary parallels between her and Nancy Spungen.
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COURTNEY LOVE
Courtney, for example, didn’t do any of what you’ll read below. The most she would do is just cry for attention or seem ‘upset’ from nightmares where Linda wouldn’t know how to soothe her and she’d be keenly aware of (something specialists wrongly accused Nancy for doing) when to cry to receive attention from certain people. Nightmares that were faked because Courtney’s manipulative habits started at an early age, similar to many children. Courtney was also given the attention she conditioned Linda to give her. If Courtney wanted attention, she got it in spades. If she wanted her space, Linda and her boyfriend would literally build her her own separate wing outside of their house in New Zealand. An act of love which Courtney would take fragments of and bastardize in her ‘my mother kept me in a chicken coop’ story which she had printed in Courtney Love - The True Story and said live on air on the Howard Stern Show in 1998, the year the book was released, (ctrl/cmd + f - “shed”).
Because there was a chicken coop. It’s just that Courtney wasn’t kept in it.
Courtney isn’t mentally ill. At all. Courtney was just an asshole since birth.
Nancy on the other hand had a variety of problems. Courtney didn’t blackout, Courtney didn’t have neurological issues where she didn’t know what she was doing. In the event of the ‘abused dog’ for example, Courtney was fully conscious of the fact that she was basically mutilating a puppy. However, there’s an enormous difference between intent and consciousness as well as self centeredness versus apathy often associated with mental illness.
════════════ ☹ IGNORANCE CHECK ☹ ════════════
Before you go further, you have to know that mental illness does not equate with fucked up behavior. It’s a common dehumanizing and ablelist myth. In reality, abusive behavior is dependent upon the individual, not a mental illness. If a person with a mental illness happens to be abusive, it’s their own decision to be abusive and the illness has nothing to do with it
Read First : What Is a Neurotypical ･ What Is a Neurodivergent Person
★ Examples of How The Masses (NTs) Demonize Personality Disorders ★
(Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4) (Part 5) (Part 6)
And just google a personality disorder next to the word “evil” and see for yourself.
Cluster B centric because it’s one of the most demonized and often used in this discussion : Helpful Links From People Who Actually Have Mental Illnesses -
⌑ Why NPD /=/ Abusive
⌑ Why Mental Illness Doesn’t Excuse Abusive Behavior (From Former Abuser)
⌑ The Difference Between BPD & Actual Emotional Abuse
⌑ The Definition of ‘Splitting’ (See Relevancy Below)
⌑ The Difference Between Splitting & Abusive Behavior
⌑ Why ‘Abusers’ & ‘Sociopaths’ Are Two Different Things
⌑ Why ASPD /=/ Abusive + Common Misconceptions
⌑ The Definition of Cognitive Empathy (Doesn’t just apply to BPD)
⌑ How People W/ ASPD/Sociopathy Can Have Cognitive Empathy
☞ Key Information - What Courtney Is vs. What A Real ‘Sociopath’ Is -
aka. a Sheep-In-Wolf’s Clothing (the wolf being the image she sells to you)
⌑ What is a sheep-in-wolf’s clothing?
⌑ What happens when a sheep meets the real thing
(Note that the blog owner’s anecdote has a lack of detachment which he used to mentally fuck with the sheep intentionally to prove a point that they needed to stop pretending, it’s not to be taken literally. Pretty much, “You want to see emotional detachment? I’ll fucking show you emotional detachment, you fucking try hard.”)
We’re going to dedicate a separate section to exploring this topic in the future but these are some good links to help spread some awareness about common misconceptions because it’s vital to de-mythologizing Courtney.
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Moving along, we’ve just introduced how Courtney likes to lie about her childhood to market her image and how Nancy’s was actually problematic and filled with real illness and abuse.
For example, when Nancy put her pet cat Aquarius in a bag and tried to drop it from a great height to ‘see if it it’d land on its feet,’ she had a blackout moment where she had no idea what the fuck she was doing. Those blackout or shift periods happened often too. Courtney, on the other hand, just flat out didn’t care. Linda, being the progressive parent, didn’t understand how her child didn’t benefit from a positive upbringing with excessive and expensive nurturing and support. Any child, sociologically, should benefit from that.
But not Courtney. Courtney had it and exploited it.
Courtney - Was born perfectly healthy and Linda’s family - her adoptive mother, father, and the people around her saw her as a wonderful and happy baby, Hank included.
Courtney - Understood very early on, by age 1 or 2, that she could manipulate people, particularly Linda, to gain power (in the form of attention at first) by choosing when to cry
Courtney - Used this method often and by the time she could talk, she designed, her now notoriously precise anecdotes, that ‘something was wrong,’ coming in the form of nightmares and a sense of alarm that Linda mentioned Courtney couldn’t specify her fear for. These anecdotes would later develop into accusations of abuse from every caretaker she was put into the care of. She eventually lumped Linda and Hank in with the exception of her step father Frank Rodriguez, whom she included in Courtney Love: Behind The Music in 2010.
> Those nightmares (namely the ones featuring her screaming about Hank) can be proven, by default, to be complete inventions seeing as she also had similar ‘nightmares’ about her new childhood friend Ingrid abusing her and she invented Ingrid’s existence.
* * * Ingrid was never a real person * * *
Courtney concocted her because she understood that forcing people to sympathize with you is the easiest way to control them.
As a victim of abusers, you develop an emotional bias to them and the abuser becomes infallible. It’s what makes people raise regular people like themselves to god like status.
> If you’ve noticed, this theme of false martyrdom has been a running theme through out her life span. Again, looking at her long history of lying that continues to this day, at age 51, it proves that from a young age she was aware that having a flair for sensationalism would make people do what she wanted. This behavior is also not unique in children and can be very common. Courtney is not a 1-in-a-million case. It’s also a frequent debate amongst Early Childhood oriented professionals and parents about whether or not children can truly be manipulative because many find it disturbing.Courtney - Pretended that all of her care providers abused her, and in very extreme and sensationalistic ways. Linda’s rationale again, because who wouldn’t believe their child? “I decided to believe her.”
> The Evil Hank Story (See link above)
> The Evil Judy Story [Linda’s Friend] (1, 2, 3)
> The Evil Sherry Story [Kindergarten Teacher] (1, 2)
> The Evil Beverly Story [Retired Teacher] (1, 2)
She’d also later go onto claim that one of her therapists was a “pervert” with inappropriate behavior in Courtney Love: Behind The Music in 2010 (6:39+).Courtney - Displayed a seemingly ‘scientific’ detachment (as deemed by Linda to excuse her behavior as a parent) from caring that she had broken her puppy’s legs, despite showing enthusiasm for ‘loving animals’ when she tried to campaign for better treatment for a bear she saw in a zoo when she was younger. Unfortunately for Linda, Courtney’s detachment came from her not needing a companion other than herself opposed to a Cluster B associated apathy or illness that’s associated with Nancy’s behavior with Aquarius. The idea that people with ASPD or ‘sociopaths’ or ‘psychopaths’ start off by torturing animals is a pop cultural myth exaggerated by horror films and sensationalism around serial killers. The idea started in the 60s by the way, if that should tell you anything. In reality, if you’ve read the links in the Mental Illness section above, you’ll see that a running theme is that people with Cluster B disorders do what they do because their motivations and personalities are influenced by a disorder that makes their process of human interaction different from ours. For example, imagine what it would be like to have a boundary between you and another person’s pain and the only thing you wanted to do was empathize but the most you could do is understand them cognitively. You’d feel like there was something wrong with you. Courtney Love doesn’t have these problems.
Courtney - Had a mother whom loved Courtney more because of her own abuse and a lot of Linda’s behavior toward her can, undeniably, stem from the need to give her the love and support she’d never experienced. She’d miscarried, was both raped by Hank and molested by her step father, and experienced abandonment from her birth parents as a child. Courtney was aware of this and used Linda’s guilt against her to monopolize control of her actions. She’d later use the insult that she hated her because she was a product of Hank (despite it not being true, of course), into media fodder to build her mythology (ctrl/cmd + f - “intelligent”). She’d also give countless interviews suggesting her mother hated her because she realized that the martyr shtick sold the hardest, despite her mother’s desperation to put as much love into her as possible.
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Courtney - Was given medication for her ‘extreme temperaments’ and other seemingly worrisome behavior (1, 2) because she conditioned Linda to believe that it was a sign of a latent illness rather than being an elaborate scheme to gain control. At one point, a teacher took Linda aside and called it out for what it was and said that Courtney was deliberately turning her classmates against her to control their behavior. Control through martyrdom became her signature tactic. Un-coincidentally, Courtney also cons people to believe her violent and erratic behavior are signs of an untreated illness or disturbance for this same reason. It worked in childhood and works equally as well in adulthood. In reality, Courtney isn’t a violent person. The violence is tacked on to gain media headlines.
“Let them think I’m crazy! In business, if they think you’re crazy, they’ll sign the freaking check.”Courtney - Was never bullied in school by her peers but would invent stories saying a such, also including that Linda hated her because she knew that it’d help her get her way faster, whether it be eating a fudgsicle before dinner or switching to an environment that would be more receptive to her abuse. The tactic would also continue in her interactions with Linda in adulthood. Un-coincidentally, in Courtney Love: The Real Story, she’d later lie to the world that her parents kept her in pee stained clothes that she was bullied for and was a frequent outcast.
Courtney - Cycled through Montessori schools, private schools, tutors and specialists, homeschooling and a public school and made failed attempts at controlling her peers and school staff. From birth to 14/15, she had lived in San Francisco, and cities in Oregon and New Zealand because her behavior made Linda make Courtney her world and switch environments to accommodate her. When given the option of complete independence with occasional therapy, Courtney fell into delinquency of her own free will and immediately lived with her father. She stayed in close contact with both of her biological parents upon emancipation into the late 90s. The epitome of a spoiled rich white girl.
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links (in order) - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
She played Linda and she’s lied about all that that to market herself and create a fairytale of instability - (note that this is only a handful) -
1987 - ‘I was put in a catholic boarding school in New Zealand and kicked out for nudity’
1992 - ‘I was in juvenile hall for four years, boarding school for three years’ (”boarding”)
1992 - Fake childhood favoritism/neglect bullshit (”drunk”)
1994 - ‘She said she was in and out of foster homes and that her mom helped her start an acting career’ (note she’d later say Linda didn’t - ctrl/cmd + f - “stage”)
1994 - ‘She raised herself since she was 12 and has no relationship with her mother now’ - Joe Mama (”linda”)
1996 - Fake childhood planting (”mother”) (also note that the trust fund amount spec. in 1996 [$1000] changes to $500 in 2011 -[2:55+])
1997 - ‘I had to learn to be independent at a tender age.’ (”tender”)
1998 - Fake childhood bullshit (Poppy Z Brite information) [0:40+] (note that the whole bit about Linda sending her books and being in regular contact with her corroborates Linda saying that was a real thing in her book) / though Courtney would later say she didn’t keep in contact
1999 - ‘My dad gave me acid when I was 4 and I lived in a teepee’ [0:40 - 0:48] / ‘I ran away to Los Angeles at 13 years old’ [4:00 - 4:30]
2006 - Fake childhood bullshit she’s contradicted (towards middle)
2010 - ‘I was in boarding school from the time I was 9.’ [4:20+]
2012 - Fake British education mention
2013 - ‘I was a British citizen until the age of 9 and my mom married an aristocrat.’ (“british”)
If you’ve been keeping up, you’ll see where she had to eventually corroborate her mother’s information over the years because she occasionally needed a base to pull from.
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NANCY SPUNGEN
Disclaimer: Unfortunately there is limited information about Nancy and most rely on unreliable narrators who can never seem to specify why they hate her and is generally Sid-centric. Vague writings on the wall and mentions of her being a sex worker, being loud and extroverted, and rare tidbits like this or the bit below that are hard to come by. All information on Nancy has been lovingly produced by “L” (dissectingkurtcobain) because they have researched her extensively.
Molly (Mudkiss Magazine) - Did you recognize the Nancy you knew in her mum’s book? The anger fits etc…
Den Browne (Former Flatmate) - It’s so long since I read that book - I’m going to have to check it out again. When I did read it, I found it very intense and emotional, but my main impression was that there was a big difference in what I’d heard from Nancy about her childhood and upbringing and what Deborah Spungen was saying. But I certainly could equate the angry, permanently unhappy child with Nancy. I could identify a lot with her experiences as my upbringing was very similar - well-off and well-meaning parents, nice things and nice house, but love was always very conditional, and with parents who were very conventional and emotionally restricted, only interested in me when I was a Good Boy doing what they wanted.
She’d been through all that too. That was certainly where a lot of her anger at her parents came from - the American Dream type obsession with possessions how many cars you had out the front - social status, impressing the neighbors, and so on. She felt all that as being totally stultifying and claustrophobic. (Source)
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Nancy - Multiple birth defects, one requiring a blood transfusion as an infant, was born with her cord wrapped around her neck, and the combination may have impaired her neurologically. Another involving physical signs that manifested in early childhood.
Nancy - Showed signs of cognitive impairment at an early age with her frequent stuttering and delayed ability to be potty trained until she was bullied for it by other children. Research shows that stuttering, especially in Nancy’s case, can be linked to neurological damage and environmental factors
Nancy - Received an early diagnosis of having a motor-visual deficiency that can be linked to Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD) in young children considering her history
Nancy - Displayed frequent tantrums and **seizures**. Many of them came from her not being able to express herself and weren’t related to seeking power or attention from an adult to cajole them into acting the way she wanted
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Nancy - Displayed intense violent rages where she would bite, hit, and threaten to destroy others’ personal property and would suddenly “shift” to calm, complacent behavior in the middle of it. She also had a completely dismissive psychiatric community evaluating her behavior. Neurodivergents have to often face ableism, prejudice, discrimination, and completely unfounded hatred often because they see their behavior as ‘detrimental’ and choose to insist that they must inherently be manipulative rather than help them. They also often can’t tell the difference between a manipulative child, like Courtney, and a child who’s actions are influenced by a combination of factors that they can’t control. In combination to the links below, also use those links as a reference to understand, from the people that have it, what it’s like facing that sort of societal bullshit every day. Finally, some anecdotes reflect suicidal ideation associated with mental illness.
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22Nancy - Experienced bullying as a child and the petty singling out for judgmental or unfounded reasons lasted well into adulthood
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2Nancy - Was given constant diagnoses that suggested a combination of mental illness and environmental factors lead to her problems, opposed to not having a root like Courtney
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9Nancy - Experienced episodes when her illnesses were mixed with the wrong prescription drugs or incorrect dosage
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Nancy - Experienced nightmares where she was actually able to specify what she was afraid of and her nightmares showed signs of Psychosis where she believed the trauma (involving bodily harm) occurred during the day
Nancy - Displayed violent urges to hurt animals, despite loving animals herself, and then would “blackout” in the midst of wanting to hurt them to a calm and complacent state, not knowing what had happened (link referenced way above)
Nancy - Came from a family, unlike Linda’s, that couldn’t afford Nancy’s issues financially
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2Nancy - Had asthma and relied on an inhaler (ctrl/cmd + f - “asthma”)
It’s a huge mistake to confuse someone severely mentally ill with a person that just wanted to micromanage their parents. It’s extremely ableist and it’s on the direct assumption that people that are mentally ill are just actually assholes. Courtney has always been an asshole.
Our criticism of each book ironically mirrors the antithesis of the public’s criticism for them. The people that praise Deborah for dealing with a ‘true devil child’ are actually ableist who should be reserving that criticism for Courtney as a child. Likewise, the fans and casual readers that criticize Linda for publishing her book and raising Courtney the way she did should actually be pitch forking Deborah. Linda Carroll in reality is the victim while Deborah Spungen is the mother that attempted to throw stones at her daughter and martyr herself. See how funny that is?
Linda’s narrative of Courtney, despite having Courtney’s intentional or unintentional corroborations, veered into unreliable territory because certain anecdotes, in exact opposition to Deborah’s, seemed to deliberately paint her daughter as a tragic figure with genuine problems despite knowing full well that they were manipulative.
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Whilst Deborah Spungen revealed that she believed that her daughter’s mental illness was put on to specifically make her unhappy.
⌑ ⌑ ⌑ Reference Links - 1, 2, 3, 4
Note: (1 - 3 and 4 are two separate incidents where Deborah expressed this)
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Through out her book she continuously victimizes herself and switches from wondering if Nancy has other factors influencing her behavior in the first third of the book to spending anything beyond Page 80 egotistically believing that Nancy was simply manipulative. That may have also influenced her to exaggerate or fabricate certain episodes. All signs point to parental abuse. You do not switch from realizing that there’s something unusual about having a ‘glazed’ look in your child’s eyes where they can’t recollect their actions to suddenly deciding that it’s completely fake. Linda on the other hand at no point fully blamed Courtney for her actions. Linda, and this is the criticism, made excuses for her child to the point of self delusion.
The reality is that both sets of parents exist. There are parents like Linda who will think the world of their children and are willing to sacrifice everything who unfortunately bear children that loathe and abuse them simply because they can. Then there are parents like Deborah who paint themselves as victims to protect themselves from mentally unwell children whom simply want to be loved.
To summarize, Courtney Love hasn’t even the slightest degree of a mental illness nor has she ever been abused. Her behavior she displayed as a child has been consistent and she’s used the same false martyr tactics to gain power over others. Our blog has hundreds of pages documenting her continuous abuse. Nancy on the other hand, has shown clear indicators of mental illness, abuse, and distress, and her behavior as an adult, according to public consensus, has unfortunately been stifled by misleading, often misogynistic, narrators. Courtney has also profited from exploiting Nancy’s image to appeal to a niche of younger fans.
